Going Deep

Sports in the 21st Century

A show that goes beyond sound bites and highlight reels

Going Deep is a smart, lively, substantive conversation about some of the most important and pressing issues of our time. It is a radio show about sports and so much more. Coach Shoop, a 26 year veteran of football coaching at the highest level, and Dr. Shoop, a theologian, minister, and author, host engaging and high profile guests on each show in a round table setting.

The Shoops engage the toughest topics with intellect, humor, and years of first hand experience in big-time sports. No issue is too complicated for Going Deep.

Listen In: An Introduction to Going Deep

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Episode One: Going Deep on Concussions, Part 1

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Concussions are a hot topic from Hollywood to the NFL to the NCAA. The first part of a two part series is centered around diagnosing concussions and then the protocols to follow after diagnosis. But Dr. Talavage and Dr. Nauman are looking at the deeper questions: How can we make the games that involve concussions safer? What really happens to the brains of players who are competing at these sports–including the brains of players who are never diagnosed with concussions? You won’t want to miss where their research has taken them. Along with Coach Terry Peebles, who is putting into practice some of what the Purdue studies have revealed, our guests have answers to some of the most vexing questions when it comes to concussions. What needs to change? And are these changes possible? We’re Going Deep on Concussions!


Special Guests: Tom Talavage and Eric Nauman, Purdue Professors and Investigators in the Purdue Neurotrauma Group, and Terry Peebles, Head Football Coach at William Henry Harrison High School

Thomas Talavage is a Professor in the Purdue University School of Electrical and Computer Engineering with a joint appointment in the Weldon School of Biomedical Engineering. He is the Founding Co-Director of the Purdue MRI Facility, and is one of the co-Principal Investigators in the Purdue Neurotrauma Group. Eric Nauman is the Director of the College of Engineering Honors Program, Professor of Mechanical Engineering and in the School of Biomedical Engineering and Basic Medical Sciences.

Eric is one of the co-Principal Investigators in the Purdue Neurotrauma Group. Work by Professors Talavage and Nauman and the Purdue Neurotrauma Group serves as the seminal demonstration of the consequences of repetitive head trauma in athletes who are generally classified as asymptomatic.

Episode Two: Going Deep on Concussions, Part 2

  Listen on iTunes

Concussions are a hot topic from Hollywood to the NFL to the NCAA. Most of the discussion has centered around diagnosing concussions and then the protocols to follow after diagnosis. But Dr. Talavage and Dr. Nauman are looking at the deeper questions: How can we make the games that involve concussions safer? What really happens to the brains of players who are competing at these sports–including the brains of players who are never diagnosed with concussions? You won’t want to miss where their research has taken them. Along with Coach Terry Peebles, who is putting into practice some of what the Purdue studies have revealed, our guests have answers to some of the most vexing questions when it comes to concussions. What needs to change? And are these changes possible? We’re Going Deep on Concussions!


Special Guests: Bob Demars, Judge Bob Orr, Natalie Graves

Thomas Talavage is a Professor in the Purdue University School of Electrical and Computer Engineering with a joint appointment in the Weldon School of Biomedical Engineering. He is the Founding Co-Director of the Purdue MRI Facility, and is one of the co-Principal Investigators in the Purdue Neurotrauma Group. Eric Nauman is the Director of the College of Engineering Honors Program, Professor of Mechanical Engineering and in the School of Biomedical Engineering and Basic Medical Sciences.

Eric is one of the co-Principal Investigators in the Purdue Neurotrauma Group. Work by Professors Talavage and Nauman and the Purdue Neurotrauma Group serves as the seminal demonstration of the consequences of repetitive head trauma in athletes who are generally classified as asymptomatic.

Episode Three: Going Deep on Sports Justice, Part 1

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These are important times in the world of college revenue athletics. Athletes, coaches, administrators, fans, and parents are being called to courageous conversations about things like concussions, due process, race, and economic justice. We will engage these issues with a former player, a litigator, and a social worker: all three tireless advocates for sports reform. On this show we’ll hear from experts on the most pressing issues in sports today. We’re going deep on sports justice!


Special Guests: Bob Demars, Judge Bob Orr, Natalie Graves

Bob is an award-winning filmmaker with over a decade of experience producing, writing, and directing. In 2009 he produced his first documentary “Adjust Your Color: The Truth of Petey Greene”, which was narrated by Don Cheadle. The film was distributed by PBS’s “Independent Lens” and went on to win the program’s Audience Award for the year. He received his degree from USC’s Marshall School of Business.

Justice Robert F. Orr is a retired N.C. Supreme Court Justice and Of Counsel with Campbell Shatley, PLLC, Asheville, NC. Justice Orr represents college athletes in NCAA matters across the country.

Natalie Graves has a private practice specializing in athletes’ mental health & wellness. Natalie is also the founder and president of the 1 in 4 PROJECT. This organization is comprised of social workers focused on bringing awareness of mental health and wellness to the sport community.

Episode Four: Going Deep on Sports Justice, Part 2

  Listen on iTunes

These are important times in the world of college revenue athletics. Athletes, coaches, administrators, fans, and parents are being called to courageous conversations about things like concussions, due process, race, and economic justice. We will engage these issues with a former player, a litigator, and a social worker: all three tireless advocates for sports reform. On this show we’ll hear from experts on the most pressing issues in sports today. We’re going deep on sports justice!


Special Guests: Bob Demars, Judge Bob Orr, Natalie Graves

Bob is an award-winning filmmaker with over a decade of experience producing, writing, and directing. In 2009 he produced his first documentary “Adjust Your Color: The Truth of Petey Greene”, which was narrated by Don Cheadle. The film was distributed by PBS’s “Independent Lens” and went on to win the program’s Audience Award for the year. He received his degree from USC’s Marshall School of Business.

Justice Robert F. Orr is a retired N.C. Supreme Court Justice and Of Counsel with Campbell Shatley, PLLC, Asheville, NC. Justice Orr represents college athletes in NCAA matters across the country.

Natalie Graves has a private practice specializing in athletes’ mental health & wellness. Natalie is also the founder and president of the 1 in 4 PROJECT. This organization is comprised of social workers focused on bringing awareness of mental health and wellness to the sport community.

Episode Five: Going Deep with Sonny Vaccaro on the Commercialization of Sports

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Sonny Vaccaro is a fascinating man.  He is a living legend in the world of sports and puts players interests first.  Sonny grew up in Western Pennsylvania and started the Dapper Dan Roundball Classic with boyhood friend Pat DiCesare in Pittsburgh.  His hope was to get local basketball players in front of college coaches to enhance their chances for recruitment.  That All Star game led to camps, which led to shoe contracts, which led to Sonny becoming the most prominent marketer of basketball shoes in the world.

It was Sonny who signed Michael Jordan to his first Nike contract and Kobe Bryant to his first shoe contract with Adidas.
It was Sonny who signed the first college coach to a shoe contract when he wrote Jerry Tarkanian a personal check.
It was Sonny who signed the University of Miami, FL to the first ever all sports apparel contract.
And it remains Sonny who seeks justice and fairness for the collegiate athletes making billions of dollars for universities throughout the country.
We hope you enjoy this podcast and learn a lot about the world of big-time sports from one of the most interesting men we’ve ever met.

Episode Six: Going Deep on Due Process in College Athletics with Dr. Emmett Gill

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The immense collection of regulations that makes up the NCAA rule book does not include any provisions for athletes to have due process. This lack of due process is a curious and troubling reality when so much is at stake for collegiate athletes. It is a topic worth our attention in America, a country that treasures our commitment to due process and fairness in all aspects of life. Dr. Emmett Gill, Professor of Social Work at the University of Texas, San Antonio and the National Convener of the Student Athletes Human Rights Project joins us to explore the cost for athletes in a system where no due process exists and possibilities for reform.


Emmett Gill, PhD is an Assistant Professor at the University of Texas at San Antonio in the Department of Social Work. Dr. Gill has also taught at North Carolina Central University, Rutgers University, and worked in the athletic department at the University of Maryland, and taught and worked in the athletic department at the United States Military Academy Center for Enhanced Performance. He is the founder and the National Convener of the Student-Athlete’s Human Rights Project, a 501c4 project dedicated to social justice for collegiate athletes.

Episode Seven: Going Deep with Joe Nocera and the Rebellion Against the NCAA

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The Billion Dollar industry of College Football and Basketball often collide with the mission of higher education.  Joe Nocera takes us on a journey through the history of the NCAA and describes the moment the NCAA went from “impotent to powerful.”  Listen to why the Power Five “Conference Commissioners are the Five most powerful guys in sports.”   He explains why baseball and hockey teams operate by a different set of rules than football and basketball when it comes to turning pro and making money.  And he tells us why Walter Byers invented the term “student-athlete” and why Myles Brand invented the “Collegiate Model.”  Fascinating listen.

Joe Nocera originally joined the NY Times as a business columnist in 2005 and around 2011 started writing a lot about the business of sports, specifically, in higher education and the role of the NCAA.  In 2015 Joe officially jumped to the sports section of the Times as the sports business columnist and recently published a book, written with co-author Ben Strauss, called Indentured: The Inside Story of the Rebellion Against the NCAA.

Joe Nocera originally joined the NY Times as a business columnist in 2005 and around 2011 started writing a lot about the business of sports, specifically, in higher education and the role of the NCAA.  In 2015 Joe officially jumped to the sports section of the Times as the sports business columnist and recently published a book, written with co-author Ben Strauss, called Indentured: The Inside Story of the Rebellion Against the NCAA.


Episode Eight: Going Deep on Anti-Trust and Price-Fixing in Big Time-Sports Part 1

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Economist, Andy Schwarz, is the go-to guy on anti-trust and price-fixing issues in big-time sports. His fascinating and penetrating analysis of the economics of collegiate sports can be found everywhere from ESPN to Deadspin to a chapter forthcoming in the Oxford Handbook of Sports Economics. He is also the author of two important appendices in Indentured: The Inside Story of the Rebellion Against the NCAA by Joe Nocera and Ben Strauss. Andy has been a litigation economist since 1997 and has testified in and consulted on several landmark cases in the sports world including L.A. Raiders v. NFL, White v. NCAA , and O’Bannon v. NCAA.


He holds an M.B.A. from the Anderson School of Management at UCLA as well as an A.B. in history from Stanford University and an M.A. in history from Johns Hopkins. Andy is a founding partner of OSKR, a consulting firm in Oakland, CA.

Episode Nine: Going Deep on Anti-Trust and Price-Fixing in Big Time-Sports Part 2

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Economist, Andy Schwarz, is the go-to guy on anti-trust and price-fixing issues in big-time sports. His fascinating and penetrating analysis of the economics of collegiate sports can be found everywhere from ESPN to Deadspin to a chapter forthcoming in the Oxford Handbook of Sports Economics. He is also the author of two important appendices in Indentured: The Inside Story of the Rebellion Against the NCAA by Joe Nocera and Ben Strauss. Andy has been a litigation economist since 1997 and has testified in and consulted on several landmark cases in the sports world including L.A. Raiders v. NFL, White v. NCAA , and O’Bannon v. NCAA.


He holds an M.B.A. from the Anderson School of Management at UCLA as well as an A.B. in history from Stanford University and an M.A. in history from Johns Hopkins. Andy is a founding partner of OSKR, a consulting firm in Oakland, CA.

Episode Ten: Going Deep with Devon Ramsay on Life as a Collegiate Athlete

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I recruited Devon Ramsay to come to UNC to play football by convincing him that he would compete for a National Championship, become as good of a player as he could be, get a meaningful and useful education, and have a family that cared for him and loved him.  Devon’s six years at UNC took many bizarre twists and turns.  In 2010 he scored the opening TD of the season against LSU in the Chick-Fil-A Bowl, but later that year was banned for life by UNC because the NCAA declared him guilty of academic fraud.  Listen as Devon tells the story of his Life as a Collegiate Athlete.


"The Business of Amateurs" - NCAA Documentary Trailer

About the Hosts

John and Marcia Mount Shoop have a lifetime of experience in sports as former athletes, coaches, and as a football family for over two decades.

John spent twenty-six years coaching in the NFL and Division I College Football. Coach Shoop has coached for some of the most storied franchises in the League: Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Oakland Raiders. He was also the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at the University of North Carolina and Purdue University. Marcia has a PhD from Emory University and is ordained to the ministry in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Dr. Shoop is the author of several books including Touchdowns for Jesus and Other Signs of Apocalypse: Lifting the Veil on Big-Time Sports. They are coaches, former athletes, and parents of athletes.

Going Deep: Sports in the 21st Century brings it all to the table along with expert guests that you’ll want to get to know. You’re invited to join the Shoops, along with many from the sports world who have stories to tell, questions to ask, and answers that may surprise you about some of the most important issues of our time.

The Shoops engage the toughest topics with intellect, humor, and years of first hand experience in big-time sports. No issue is out of bounds on Going Deep, it’s a radio show about sports and so much more.

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